Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bug reports and feature requests should be made in Phabricator (see how to report a bug). Bugs with security implications should be reported differently (see how to report security bugs).

Newcomers to the technical village pump are encouraged to read these guidelines prior to posting here. If you want to report a JavaScript error, please follow this guideline. Questions about MediaWiki in general should be posted at the MediaWiki support desk. Discussions are automatically archived after remaining inactive for five days.

Frequently asked questions (FAQ) (see also: Wikipedia:FAQ/Technical)
Click "[show]" next to each point to see more details.
If something looks wrong, purge the server's cache, then bypass your browser's cache.
This tends to solve most issues, including improper display of images, user-preferences not loading, and old versions of pages being shown.
No, we will not use JavaScript to set focus on the search box.
This would interfere with usability, accessibility, keyboard navigation and standard forms. See task 3864. There is an accesskey property on it (default to accesskey="f" in English). Logged-in users can set a gadget in their preferences.
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You can use a web browser such as Firefox, which has a spell checker.
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VisualEditor browser speed comparison[edit]

Some operations on VisualEditor take a very long time (notably moving columns on very large tables like this one). Has anyone ever bothered benchmarking browsers on VisualEditor speeds? — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 05:07, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

VE performance benchmarking has been done, yes. But I can't find the phab ticket at the moment. – SD0001 (talk) 05:56, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
Thanks. Just ran a dozen searches there, to no avail. If it pops back from your memory, please let me know. Cheers. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 07:12, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

How to protect multiple articles at once?[edit]

If there's a list of titles (like added in this edit), is there some easy way to protect them all with a minimum of keystrokes? I'm thinking some javascript tool where you could drag-select them all, get a dialog with two questions ("semi, ECP, or full?" and "for how long?"), and then execute it all in one click. Surely somebody's written that already? -- RoySmith (talk) 13:04, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

AWB has protect options for admins I believe, but I doubt that would be more convenient for just 5 pages. --Trialpears (talk) 13:09, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
Twinkle has p-batch (but isn't great on a page with a large number of links you don't want protected); I've used it by copy-pasting the list to my sandbox before. — xaosflux Talk 19:30, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
Xaosflux, Ah, cool. Yeah, p-batch seems like what I'm looking for. Thanks. -- RoySmith (talk) 20:05, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Watched edits disappearing from watchlist[edit]

Probably WP:ITSTHURSDAY, but Special:Watchlist is behaving oddly. If I see a bad edit in there, use the WP:ROLLBACK feature and refresh the watchlist, the reverted edit gains the "Reverted" tag, and my edit shows with the "Rollback" tag, both of which are as expected. If I then enable "Hide my edits" and refresh, both of the abovementioned edits disappear, not just my edit. I have "Expand watchlist to show all changes, not just the most recent" enabled at Preferences → Watchlist, so the reverted edit should show whether mine is hidden or not. The two edits concerned are these. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:22, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Even stranger, it also happens for rollbacks that other people made. For instance, these two edits both show if "Hide my edits" is not enabled; but if I enable it, the earlier of the two vanishes. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:35, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

I've found that it's not just rollback, but any form of undo. Also, an edit made by a logged-in user that gets tagged "Reverted" does not get hidden. Consider these six edits; disabling "Hide my edits" shows all six, but enabling it shows only one - the one by Bazza 7. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:53, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Right, I think I have a better description. If there are edits by an IP which are tagged "Reverted", those edits are hidden when "Hide my edits" is enabled. They should not be hidden. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:04, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

For me, it goes even further. If I check "Hide my edits", all IP edits get hidden. Unchecking makes them reappear. – Ammarpad (talk) 20:30, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
Likewise - "hide my edits" makes IP edits disappear. DuncanHill (talk) 22:31, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
It does seem so, I hadn't carried out sufficient tests for that. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:25, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
Happening for me too. –Novem Linguae (talk) 15:42, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Yep, me too. I thought an IP edit didn't show yesterday on my watchlist, but it's def. not a one-off and is happening to other pages. Thanks. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 08:23, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
Lots of IP vandalism going through that a ton of users might not be aware of. Maybe turn off the ability to allow IP edits until this is fixed... Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 16:25, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
This appears to be a simple mistake in a database query. It would be far simpler to fix that than disable IP edits. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 17:40, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Watchlist hides IP edits[edit]

As of today, my watchlist only shows edits from registered editors. I do not have "hide unregistered users" checked. (I just checked and unchecked it as an experiment; that did not fix the problem.) I'm not aware of changing anything else. Does anyone else have this problem, or a suggestion for fixing it? Certes (talk) 11:16, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Update: unchecking "hide my edits" reveals the IP edits, so that's a workaround for anyone sharing the issue. Now I can see all the vandalism that others reverted after I missed it! Certes (talk) 11:19, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
I'm seeing a similar problem, which I have noticed for the last few days. I only noticed it because I would typically see an edit by a registered user, and when I clicked on the diff I saw a single edit reverting vandalism that had been done the same day - but I don't recall seeing the vandalism edit appear on my watchlist. (Previously I would see both edits, and a diff of "nothing" because one edit reverted the other.) I have "Expand watchlist to show all changes, not just the most recent", "Hide my edits from the watchlist", and "Group changes by page in recent changes and watchlist" enabled. (As with Certes, displaying my own edits also shows the IPs'.)
If I show my own edits as a workaround, and expand my watchlist to the last 30 days, I can see "unvisited diffs" (all IP edits that I would normally look at) going back to 2021-05-08, so that gives an indication of (at least) how long the problem has been there for me. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:17, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
@Mitch Ames: By my reckoning, the problem began at around 19:04, 6 May 2021 (UTC), which is when I made this revert - the IP's edit that I reverted had definitely shown in my watchlist (otherwise I wouldn't have seen it to check it out), but after I rollbacked that edit, I noticed that it vanished. See also my post that started this section. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:57, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
I also show all changes and group by page. The problem seems to be intermittent. (Could there be a bug released on some servers only?) I just refreshed with my edits hidden and I see IPs; I also have a tab still open from yesterday which incorrectly hides IPs. Unfortunately I will have been "marking all as read" once I'd reviewed each batch of changes, so I may have missed a lot of IP edits. More importantly, it sounds as if others may have missed them too. Certes (talk) 12:28, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Noticed the same thing - IP users disappeared from a filter I use all the time, if I edited it to not hide my own edits (which wouldn't appear in this filter anyway), the problem goes away. --Krelnik (talk) 16:12, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
This appears to be fixed now, with [1]. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 01:29, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
Yes, I can see IP edits on my watchlist this morning, without the need to do the work-around. Thanks! Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 07:16, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Change 'permanent' to 'indefinite'[edit]

When clicking the star to add a page to one's watchlist, it should say indefinite instead of permanent as if it were permanent one would not be able to unwatch the page ever again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zedriodor (talkcontribs) 13:53, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

  • (VPT specific response here) These messages are found here and here. If you think this label is technically inaccurate, you should request a software change. If you think it is a local issue that only impacts the English Wikipedia then you may follow up with an edit request on the associated message talk page(s). — xaosflux Talk 15:24, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
    It's unlikely to be changed in core as it was chosen intentionally albeit with no convincing reasons. I raised similar point here when the feature was being developed. But there was some pushback with some saying 'permanent' is more 'comprehensible' or something along that line. If English Wikipedia wants fix it, MediaWiki:Watchlist-expiry-options is the message to edit locally. Also this is not issue of being 'technically inaccurate', it's about using more appropriate word that does not have the connotation that the word "permanent" carries. – Ammarpad (talk) 19:55, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Customization modes[edit]

It would be nice to toggle easily between two different settings of Preferences/Gadgets ... for instance, I like to use the black background with green text at night, and the regular background during the day. Is it possible to save two different settings for Gadgets and press one button to toggle between them? - Dank (push to talk) 00:29, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

There's a new Dark mode gadget that can be toggled on/off using dark-mode-toggle.js script. @Dank you seem to be referring to the "Use a black background with green text" gadget for which I'm not sure a toggle script already exists, but can you easily create it by copying the code of dark-mode-toggle.js and tweaking the strings in it. Due to technical reasons, it is not possible for the gadget itself to have an embedded toggle button. See discussion regarding this for dark mode gadget at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_189#Proposal_for_a_dark-mode_gadget_addition_(before_Earth_Day_22_April?). – SD0001 (talk) 05:54, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
I've found Nightpedia quicker. Also more convenient having it at the top link row. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 07:04, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Conditional formatting template[edit]

I thought this table with conditional formatting looked cool, and created a template so that the formatting could be automated and more easily updated when the data changed: {{Conditional color}}. The template changes the cell background colour given a value, a min and a max (and,optionally, min and max colours). It worked... till I decided to get fancy, and flip the font colour to white when the background colour got too dark. That didn't work, and I'm not sure why, bc it does work when piecewisely parsing the template. I suspect it's got something to do with Lua processing, as quite a few of the templates I used invoke Lua modules, but I'm not sure. So I started writing non-Lua versions of the used templates just to test that out, but that started getting increasingly complex. Any suggestions? — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 00:41, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

@Guarapiranga: Please post example code and say what you see and what you want to see. The only current use of {{Conditional color}} is the first line in User:Guarapiranga/sandbox/2:
|{{conditional color|4.3|0|10}}
It produces:
It has white text on blue background for me and sounds like what you wanted. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:17, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
Ha! Nailed it!
Sorry, I had a couple of logic mistakes there. It shouldn't actually be blue with those parameters; now it's working. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 10:04, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Good topic pages mass move[edit]

Okay well, I'm in a bit of a pickle. For a long time, Good topics have been made and labeled as "Featured topics" (e.g. Wikipedia:Featured topics/Daft Punk studio albums) which is, of course, a different thing all together. They can all be seen here. I only became a delegate a few months ago and have just been going along with it, though I've received numerous confused messages from users why their good topic was named as such. They should really all be moved to "Good topic" to align subpages, but a while back, I promoted one and named it Wikipedia:Good topic/Example and the article history on the individual article pages didn't link to the correct page. e.g. something like said had a redlink for ".bv is part of the Norid series, a good topic". I would assume this is because the Template:Article history is written to specifically link to pages beginning with "Wikipedia:Featured topic", e.g. "|ftname=Norid" will link to "Wikipedia:Featured topics/Norid"—there's no "|gtname=" parameter. As you can see, I barely know what I'm talking about. If I understand it correctly, the template would have to be adjusted so articles actually link to Wikipedia:Good topic/Example" when the "|action2=GTC" is selected—then the pages will all have to be mass moved. Am I in the right here? Does anyone know how to initiate this or... help?? Aza24 (talk) 01:56, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Aza24 This will probably require a bot and some changes to {{Article history}}. The best path forward here is probably to have a discussion with the featured/good topic crowd to make sure the change has consensus and put a request at WP:BOTREQ where the thread wouldn't be archived before the issue is resolved. I currently have quite a lot going on so I won't take up this task for now at least. --Trialpears (talk) 10:14, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Locating self-redirect notice[edit]

I occasionally have a mind freeze and accidentally try to redirect a page to itself. The software helpfully detects this and serves up this notice: Warning: You are redirecting this page to itself. You may have specified the wrong target for the redirect, or you may be editing the wrong page. If you click "Publish page" again, the redirect will be created anyway. However, there's no icon or other strong visual signal, so it always takes me a minute to question why the edit didn't go through and then see the notice. I'd like to suggest an icon be added or the font size increased or something, but I cannot find anywhere in the MediaWiki namespace where this notice is located. Does anyone know? {{u|Sdkb}}talk 02:23, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

@Sdkb: see MediaWiki:Selfredirect. — xaosflux Talk 03:01, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
Thanks! I'm not sure how that didn't show up in the search results. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 03:02, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
It doesn't exist locally yet. Only pages which are on-wiki can be searched. You can use [?&]uselang=qqx in the future to find the name of the message always. Izno (talk) 03:25, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
@Sdkb there's also a "Add a toolbox link to reload the current page with the system message names exposed" gadget in preferences. – SD0001 (talk) 05:55, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
Is there a way to use uselang=qqx on previews and other action=submit url's? If you add it to the url before clicking Show preview then it's removed from the url when you click. If you add it afterwards and reload the page then the data you have submitted is wiped. I sometimes resort to loading all 25,000 system messages with a link at WP:QQX (or a stored copy on my PC) and make a Ctrl+F browser search. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:05, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
Have to check on that, but Special:AllMessages includes all messages, and you can show up to 5000 on the page. — xaosflux Talk 09:19, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
@PrimeHunter: while not always present (esp on some very old messages, and on some OOUI stuff...) the messages generally have an id on them in the source output, for example in this case the page source for this message starts with: <div id="mw-selfredirect"> and the id=the message name. — xaosflux Talk 10:02, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
@PrimeHunter Yes, create a hidden element <input type=hidden value=qqx name=uselang> within the <form> element using the browser devtools. Then preview (this of course doesn't work if you have JS-based live preview enabled). – SD0001 (talk) 10:22, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Mapframe showing ocean in saved page[edit]

Area designated for preliminary studies for placement of the energy island in the North Sea.

I'm trying to add this mapframe to an article. In preview it works fine, showing the defined shape next to the coastline of Denmark, but on the saved page the frame just shows a largely empty piece of ocean somewhere. Anyone knows how to fix this?--Anders Feder (talk) 18:47, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

This is a known issue. Check back in about an hour or so and it should display on the article as it did in your preview (and bonus bug, it should then appear as a piece of empty ocean in the preview). - Floydian τ ¢ 19:02, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
Oh ok, thanks.--Anders Feder (talk) 19:04, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
Part of the issue is that in preview mode, the image is a true SVG that is locally rendered by your browser; in "saved" mode, the image is a PNG, held on Wikimedia servers. They are very different. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:10, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
I see, the servers have to do some processing to make it ready for "prime time" first so to speak.--Anders Feder (talk) 19:14, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Now the ocean is gone but it has been replaced with a broken image? If I open the "image" file directly it turns out it's an error message (presumably from the server's renderer): "Failed to parse color: \"#function fill() { [native code] }\"[2] What could be the cause? The GeoJSON seems to work fine in preview and other tools.--Anders Feder (talk) 20:39, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Fixed, had to add a "fill" property apparently.--Anders Feder (talk) 20:55, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Script error[edit]

I have an error on every page I open, but am not sure what script is causing it. at line 80: Uncaught ReferenceError: wgNamespaceNumber is not defined Qwerfjkl|   22:07, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

One of the 40-some odd scripts that you are importing is using the global, which has recently been turned off (it is bad software practice to use globals). Let me see if I can hunt it down to fix. Izno (talk) 22:37, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
I've made a fix in User:EpochFail/wikignome.js; not totally certain how Amorymeltzer missed that one. Izno (talk) 22:50, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
Thanks! ― Qwerfjkl|   20:00, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Now it has been replaced by a new error: in line 92: Uncaught ReferenceError: wgPageName, as Nardog has mentioned ― Qwerfjkl|   20:05, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
@Izno: It looks like you missed wgPageName on line 91. (I wonder why you had to create a whole new function for wgNamepaceNumber btw. Doesn't strike me as necessary.) Nardog (talk) 20:08, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
It made sense to me, give me a sec to add the other. I mostly don't understand the implications of adding a global variable into a user script so I wrapped it into a function instead; just adding the get in each specific instance probably would have made more sense. Izno (talk) 20:12, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Well all the functions are declared in the global scope. I see nothing wrong in using mw.config.get(...) in each conditional. Nardog (talk) 20:25, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
I have an additional error from (I presume) a different script that is as follows: at line 467: Uncaught TypeError: cannot read property 'indexOf' of undefined. I also get an error on any user page: [The user page URL] at line 33: Uncaught TypeError: cannot read property 'prototype' of undefined.― Qwerfjkl|   20:38, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
And another one in (I presume Wp:WikEd) in line 192/553: Uncaught ReferenceError: 'WikEdGetSection' is not defined Qwerfjkl  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 19:21, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
Ask the maintainer of WikEd and the other scripts that show the errors. The wg* error was due to an function removal in mediawiki (anything on mw:ResourceLoader/Migration guide (users) classifies as that), where as the most recent three script errors are coding errors in the scripts themselves. Interface administrators can deal with the former group but the latter is not within their roles.--Snævar (talk) 20:00, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
No, we can deal with the latter too, I'm just not smart enough. :^) But yes, I otherwise agree that these others should be reported to the script maintainers. Izno (talk) 20:42, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

File:Example.jpg appearing on Flags of country subdivisions[edit]


According to Special:WhatLinksHere, the Example file is appearing on Flags of country subdivisions. I'm not able to locate the file in the source text and I'm not able to spot the image in the article. Can someone locate where the image is appearing and remove it or replace it with the intended image? Home Lander (talk) 23:24, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

It's probably because it's included in {{Country data Pietà}}, which is transcluded in the article via {{flagg}}. – Finnusertop (talkcontribs) 00:07, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
I fixed that template. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:45, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Commons images not appearing[edit]


I see in the archives that this often happens, but I didn't see where it has been resolved. I just replaced a .png flag with a .svg one from Commons, but when I copy/pasted the new name, the only thing that appeared was 40px. This has happened to me before and my resolution is to go to the image page on Wikipedia, copy/paste the exact same name, and the image then strangely appears correctly. So I'm curious as to why this happens? As I said, I've had to do this many times with other Commons images (not just flags), and I'm getting a little tired of having to do this. Before two or three years ago, I didn't have to, but now it seems to happen all the time. And I wonder why? P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 16:12, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

@Paine Ellsworth: My immediate guess is that your first copied filename included an invisible character, such as the zero-width space. Compare Flag of Northern Ireland Assembly.svg vs 40px. Where did you first copy the filename from? Nardog (talk) 16:26, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
To Nardog: first copied from Commons, which yielded the 40px in the {{Country data Northern Ireland}} template, then copied from the image on Wikipedia, which actually appeared in the template correctly. Your response raises the question, "Why would anybody insert invisible characters into Commons file names???" P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 16:37, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
@Paine Ellsworth: Where exactly on Commons, though? Like the first heading of the file page, the link to the raw file, a link in a category or search results, etc. No, I'm not suggesting that the filename on Commons itself contained an invisible character. But the string on your clipboard might have. Nardog (talk) 16:48, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
To Nardog: the one that didn't work was copied from the page title of the Commons file page, then the copy that worked was from the same page title on Wikipedia. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 16:58, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
40px – here you go, right from the Commons page title. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 17:00, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
I just confirmed that it's not my browser – that 40px appears on this page in this section in IE, Chrome, Edge and Firefox. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 17:14, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
The "here you go" link indeed has an invisible character appended to it. Hovering over the "40px" link tells me it's "Flag of Northern Ireland Assembly.svg%200B". In edit mode, placing my cursor after the vertical bar in "File:Flag of Northern Ireland Assembly.svg​|40px", backspacing once takes me prior to the vertical bar. Backspacing again does not take me prior to the "g" of "svg", but instead I need to backspace again to get there. DMacks (talk) 17:23, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
DMacks, there is a trailing Zero-width space. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:31, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Like I thought. I'm having a hard time reproducing it though, so I assume a gadget or user script you've installed is adding it. And by "the page title", you mean the top heading, not the HTML title that appears on the browser tab etc., right? Nardog (talk) 17:36, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Hope ya'll don't mind, I've invited editors from c:Commons:Village pump/Technical over to have a look at this. And that might be IS yet another Commons page title that has an invisible character in it. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 17:41, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Paine Ellsworth, Nardog, I can't reproduce it either. The HTML for the page title (<h1 id="firstHeading" class="firstHeading">File:Flag of Northern Ireland Assembly.svg</h1>) is identical on enwiki and Commons, so the zero-width space is probably added either in CSS that doesn't exist on enwiki or by a gadget that isn't enabled on enwiki. Paine_Ellsworth, can you try disabling gadgets on Commons? Which skin are you using on enwiki and Commons? And can you copy/paste the page title from [3] here? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:45, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
I doubt it's CSS. If you have VisualEditor and MediaWiki:Gadget-edittop.js enabled, #firstHeading likely has a zero-width space in the .mw-editsection::before pseudo-element [4], but browsers usually omit the contents of pseudo-elements when copying something to the clipboard. Nardog (talk) 17:55, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
To Alexis Jazz: I use the Vector skin all around, and here comes the file link: 20px. I use 18 gadgets on Commons and I'm a file mover both here and there. Not crazy about the "try disabling gadgets on Commons" idea. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 18:01, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
PS. I was not logged in to "Beta Commons" when I copied the link you gave me, and when I pasted it I could not find an invisible character in it. And yet it still appears to me as 20px on this page. PS by P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 18:11, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
@Paine Ellsworth: What about when you're logged out (try incognito)? Or when using this link? Nardog (talk) 18:06, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Your link did yield an image when I copy/pasted it here so I disabled it. I wasn't logged in to Beta Commons and a copy/paste of the page title still did not yield an image here, just a 20px P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 18:17, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Paine Ellsworth, try disabling Add an [edit] link for the lead section of a page in c:Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets and enable it in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets. Any difference? Which browser/OS do you use? EDIT: my mistake, you don't have this problem on beta. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:10, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
I disabled the Add an [edit] link for the lead section of a page on Commons and it was already enabled here. I just purged this page and there is no difference. The Commons file links are still red. Thank you Nardog for showing why the Beta Commons link is red! P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 18:26, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Paine Ellsworth, links you already copied will always be red. The error happens when you copy/paste. I just enabled all the gadgets on Commons (including all beta gadgets) and still couldn't reproduce your problem. Can you copy/paste a filename in an incognito window or (if your browser has no such feature) while logged out? (you may want to log back in before pasting it here) Which browser/OS are you using? Have you tried another? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:33, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Logged in: 20px
Logged out: Flag of Northern Ireland Assembly.svg
I use IE and I've checked this in Chrome, Firefox and Edge as well (all in Windows), all latest versions and updates. Same problem.P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 18:44, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Paine Ellsworth, you have actually copied and pasted the filename in Chrome, Firefox and Edge? Logging out appears to solve your problem, so it's probably a gadget. Write down which ones you have enabled and disable them all. If that solves it. enable half of the gadgets you had enabled. If that doesn't trigger the problem, enable another quarter of your gadgets. Or if it did, disable all the gadgets again and enable only a quarter this time. Continue this to figure out in which half, which quarter, which 1/8 etc the problem gadget is. If disabling all your gadgets doesn't solve the problem, blank c:User:Paine Ellsworth/vector.css and c:User:Paine Ellsworth/common.js and m:User:Paine Ellsworth/global.js and m:User:Paine Ellsworth/global.css and m:User:Paine Ellsworth/common.css and m:User:Paine Ellsworth/vector.css. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:11, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
@Paine Ellsworth: Can I suggest that you try Richard Ishida's Unicode converter? Having copied something suspicious to your clipboard, visit that link and paste into the green area near the top, then click the Convert button above it. Then have a look in the second grey area down from that, headed "HTML/XML"; this has a checkbox "Escape invisible characters", try toggling that a few time - it should reveal the position of these rogue characters, as well as giving their values. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:02, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Oh, man, Redrose64 – you've been helping me with invisible characters and lots of other things for more than 10 years now. Seems like they're always tripping me up. This was a bit more than I wanted to take on for a Mother's Day. And btw, Happy Mother's Day to all! and remember... mothering is not just about gender, it's well, a way of life, isn't it? Anyway, thank you and the rest of you so much! I think now that I know what is happening and where to look for the invisible character, I shall color this resolved. I won't have to pull up the image page on Wikipedia anymore, just backspace over the IC and get on with it. Thanks again everybody! P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 02:46, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
Paine Ellsworth, now you see why you see in the archives that this often happens. It's likely a faulty gadget, but we can't reproduce it (we could try again if we knew which gadgets you have enabled) and if you don't test which one it is the next poor sap who runs into this will just find this "resolved" thread in the archives! Face-wink.svgAlexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:19, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
Ah yes, the old "guilt trip" Face-smile.svg it's just been a mutha of a day, Alexis Jazz. Okay, I'll resume testing and let ya'll know, probably tomorrow. I got as far as dumping my enwiki gadgets without change. I'll keep going for posterity's sake even though it's an easy fix for me now. L8RG8R P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 03:46, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
Paine Ellsworth, if you really really don't want to I understand, but it would be nice to find the cause. And it would be convenient if you didn't have to remember to backspace the zero-width space anymore, wouldn't it? Face-smile.svgAlexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:38, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
That's a red link only because File:Ghhb.jpg doesn't exist here or on Commons. It doesn't have an invisible character in it. Nardog (talk) 18:17, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

To Alexis Jazz, Nardog, DMacks and Redrose64: thank all of you for responding and for your help in this. Further testing shows that this is a browser-specific problem. Yes, once again IE quirks out. Alexis Jazz, you suggested above that rather than just open browsers and go to pages that were already saved in IE, I should actually log in to Wikipedia in each browser and perform the same copy/paste actions in each browser. I did so, and the results are shown in my sandbox. As you can see, only IE inserted the invisible characters in the Commons links. That did not happen in any of the other browsers. So thanks again, that was very much a learning experience for me! P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 18:06, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Paine Ellsworth, excellent! That also explains why we couldn't reproduce it. I don't use IE. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:13, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
I doubt if I will use it much anymore either. More and more websites either don't work at all in IE or they work only in a limited fashion. The funny thing is, I had decided to begin using Chrome for Wikipedia and started there with the testing. I was ready to delete gadgets, modify .css and .js pages and all, but I found I didn't have to. There were no invisible characters transferred in Chrome. I retested IE and then tested in Firefox and Edge. It was surprising and alarming that IE was the only browser that inserted the ICs (twice in the case of the Commons VP link). Thanks again, your input was invaluable! P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 18:26, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
This was the straw that broke the camel's back. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 20:04, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

sfn no-target errors[edit]


So a number of my GAs and FAs have been flagged as containing no-target sfn errors, and have been put in a maintenance category as such. For instance, 8th Missouri Infantry Regiment (Confederate) is in the error category. What I think is the problem is that I'm using source-specific citation templates {{Cite McGhee 2008}} and {{Cite Kennedy 1998}}. All of the sfns work, and these templates are policy compliant. However, they still appear in the error category because something fails to recognize that the citation is tied to the template and they then appear in cleanup listings such as this one. Given that those cleanup listings are sometimes used to determine which GAs and FAs need delisted, I'd rather the articles just having that template confusion not appear in there if there are no other problems. Is there a work-around to get whatever to recognize that the citation links to the template, or do I just need to ignore it. There are three source-specific citation templates that I use that make citing source much easier, so I intend to continue using them as they are policy compliant, even if they will always add it to that category, since the sfns all work. Hog Farm Talk 18:15, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

See Module:Footnotes/whitelist. * Pppery * it has begun... 18:18, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
I have added those templates to the whitelist. False positives are a known issue with this code, which is why the error messages have not been made visible. Brilliant suggestions for fixing the false positive errors are welcome at Module talk:Footnotes. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:29, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, y'all! Not the greatest with citation templates ... Hog Farm Talk 21:21, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

A reference problem[edit]

On User:Chicdat/sandbox, a reference I used eight times is not showing. Can someone please help? 🐔 Chicdat  Bawk to me! 12:16, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Fixed.[5] Didn't you see the error message: "Cite error: The <ref> tag name cannot be a simple integer (see the help page)." PrimeHunter (talk) 12:57, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
@PrimeHunter: As a matter of fact, I didn't see it. But thank you for helping, 🐔 Chicdat  Bawk to me! 10:00, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Tech News: 2021-19[edit]

15:08, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

lintHint in sandbox[edit]

As advised earlier, User:PerfektesChaos/js/lintHint helps to find syntax errors. One difficulty: it doesn't work in my sandbox in wikibooks. Will an adjustment of configuration allow lintHint to work in a sandbox? Thx, ... PeterEasthope (talk) 15:19, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Glancing at the source, it looks like it's hard-coded for use on certain sites only. Let's ask the author: @PerfektesChaos. Nardog (talk) 18:56, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
Basically it should work on all projects. No project is excluded.
It is a bit tricky in which namespaces other than main space it shall run in which automatic mode. Please see User:PerfektesChaos/js/lintHint #Usage.
You might be a bit more precise where your sandbox is located.
Greetings --PerfektesChaos (talk) 20:32, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
My wikibook sandbox is b:User:PeterEasthope/sandbox. lintHint works on other book pages; only the sandbox is problematic. Thx, ... PeterEasthope (talk) 11:35, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Did you configure explicitly that you want to examine “user” or “all” namespace?
There is no different treatment by lintHint rather than focussing on regular content by default for performance reasons.
Best, --PerfektesChaos (talk) 13:22, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
According to User:PerfektesChaos/js/lintHint, I added the line
mw.loader.load( "" );
to common.js and to global.js. Did no additional configuration and don't know how examination of a specific namespace would be configured.
The instructions actually refer to "common.js, global.js etc." and I have no idea of what is referred to by "etc." I'm following the instructions mechanically without understanding the role of the JavaScript files.
Regards, ... PeterEasthope (talk) 14:07, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

@PeterEasthope: Please look at User:PerfektesChaos/js/lintHint #Usage.

  • #Default behaviour starts with the words “In wiki main space (e.g. Wikipedia articles)”.
    • Your user space is not a “main space”.
    • That does mean: If you want lintHint to continue the execution within your user space you need to configure that.
  • #Quick interactive customization tells you how to customize things easily on Special:BlankPage/preferencesGadgetOptions #lintHint.
  • Open that page, and provide a 2 which is the namespace number of user space. Or * to request all namespaces. Finally, click the green + button there.

Greetings --PerfektesChaos (talk) 19:16, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. Will configure as you instruct. ... PeterEasthope (talk) 22:35, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Job hard to complete[edit]

Category:Latest stable software release templates have a lot of versions to update... What can be done to simplify the work? I think to transfer to Wikidata, it is very simple to manage the release versions on Wikidata. You can check this source code. On the Italian Wikipedia, the template Software have the Stable release parameter with empty value, the value come from Wikidata. Maybe on the Infobox software template could be use {{#property:P348}} template for call version value from Wikidata. --2001:B07:6442:8903:14CB:A68E:BFAA:8780 (talk) 16:31, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

You (or somebody very like you) posted exactly the same question nearly three weeks ago, it's now archived to Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 189#Job hard to complete. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:41, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Spam filter[edit]

Moved from WP:VPP

In trying to link to an article on I get the message "Error: The text you wanted to publish was blocked by the spam filter. This is probably caused by a link to a forbidden external site. The following text is what triggered our spam filter:". I wonder a) why that site is considered a.) a source of spam? and b.) by whom in WP or by what process is that decided? To me there, there appears to be no obvious spam (or anything that should make it deserving of being classified "forbidden") on that site. Chris Fynn (talk) 08:06, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

  • The spam filter is explained at Wikipedia:Spam blacklist, using the handy archive search there I found that it was blacklisted for hosting copyright violations. It has been appealed multiple times (although not since 2010), all declined, but with the allowance that specific links can be considered for inclusion on the whitelist. You don't give details of what article you were looking to include, so I can't say whether that has been previously considered or not, but the most recent whitelist for that request (2016) was declined with a link to this 2007 AN/I thread which contains about 15 examples of copyright violations. You can request your specific link be whitelisted - just go to MediaWiki talk:Spam-whitelist and follow the instructions there, but I would strongly recommend first ascertaining that the article you want to link to is not a copyright violation, but if you can find the original source and cite that instead it will be much simpler. Thryduulf (talk) 09:59, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
The spam blacklist log [6] shows it was I didn't know this log until recently. It's not included in Special:Log/CFynn which claims "All public logs", and it's not listed under "Show additional logs". You have to select it in the "User logs" drop-down. If there isn't a Phab task about this then there should be. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:41, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
@PrimeHunter: It's not technically a "public log". You need to be logged in to view it. I don't know why. Perhaps to keep the log away from NOINDEX-ignoring webcrawlers? Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 23:18, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
Thanks. I compared the list of logs between not logging in and my admin account. The only added logs are Spam blacklist log and Title blacklist log. The latter log is empty because $wgTitleBlacklistLogHits is disabled (phab:T68450). I think Spam blacklist log should be included under "Show additional logs" for logged in users. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:38, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Reply link[edit]

I have two reply links for comment (reply) - from the user script - and [ reply ] - from the Beta tool - but recently, they have only appeared momentarily, and the dissapear, and I am sent near to the bottom of the page. ― Qwerfjkl  (please use {{reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply) 19:30, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

The User:Enterprisey/reply-link.js user script is probably interfering with the new reply feature in mediawiki. Enterprisey script shows the "(reply)" and mediawiki shows "[reply]".--Snævar (talk) 19:55, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
Shucks, I should probably fix that. Enterprisey (talk!) 05:17, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Is there any benefit in keeping them both? — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 06:24, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
There's also Convenient Discussions which I personally find so much better than either of these two. It uses the very same comment parsing code as the [reply] beta tool. – SD0001 (talk) 07:07, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

ANI keeps disappearing from my watchlist[edit]

Just happened twice - I go to my watchlist and WP:ANI isn't shewing. I go somewhere else then back to my watchlist and there it is back again. DuncanHill (talk) 22:46, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

@DuncanHill: Let me guess, you have "Hide my edits from the watchlist" checked, but do not have "Expand watchlist to show all changes, not just the most recent" checked? See #Watched edits disappearing from watchlist. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 22:49, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
@Suffusion of Yellow:, no, I do not have "Hide my edits from the watchlist" checked. DuncanHill (talk) 22:52, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
@DuncanHill: So maybe something different, then. (1) Do you have "Use non-JavaScript interface" checked in your preferences? (2) Do you see any edits from IP users in your watchlist. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 23:01, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
You can sometimes get this if you refresh your watchlist at the exact same time as the page is edited. ANI can get very busy. You can also sometimes see it if you watch AIV enough. -- zzuuzz (talk) 23:03, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
@Suffusion of Yellow: 1) Yes, 2) Yes, loads. @Zzuuzz: I suspect you may be onto it - there was a lot of fast vandalism and reversion going on at the time. DuncanHill (talk) 23:04, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
Hmm, never noticed that before. That makes more sense. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 23:08, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
I should probably add, in light of the recent watchlist bug, that this has been around for years. It's also not commonly seen - I only notice it a few times a year, and I honestly suspect no one else has ever noticed it. -- zzuuzz (talk) 19:35, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
You still haven't answered Suffusion of Yellow's second question. If "Expand watchlist..." is not enabled, then Zzuuzz's theory checks out. Nardog (talk) 01:51, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Bringing the MediaWiki { and ( syntax highlighting here[edit]

At MediaWiki, I've noticed recently that if you have syntax highlighting turned on, whenever there's a parenthesis or bracket, the closing parenthesis/bracket is highlighted whenever the cursor is over the opening one and vice versa. You can check it out at any random template there, say this one. This feature seems super useful, especially for more complicated templates with many layers of embedded templates within them. Could we activate it here on en-WP? {{u|Sdkb}}talk 22:59, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

A recent Tech News said it was on the way. Izno (talk) 23:05, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
Increadibly boring phab ticket: T280023. --Trialpears (talk) 23:11, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
Nice to know it's on the way; I guess we can wait for the gears to churn so long as it's in process. Thanks for the phab link! {{u|Sdkb}}talk 03:37, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

show-hide links display badly on 2021 New York City mayoral election[edit]

2021 New York City mayoral election Show-hide screenshot.png

Could somebody who knows wiki-markup better than I do please take a look at 2021 New York City mayoral election#Endorsements. The links to show/hide the various sections display poorly. See the screenshot; the "show" link for Eric Adams is so far down, it looks like it belongs to Shaun Donovan, etc. -- RoySmith (talk) 01:46, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Fixed in Special:Diff/1022548410 * Pppery * it has begun... 03:45, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Pppery, Cool, thanks! -- RoySmith (talk) 13:20, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Infoboxes widths[edit]

Please, fix widths of infoboxes in Mirsad Hibić and Elvir Bolić articles. I see in Hibić's article 'Place of birth' content left wrapped. -- (talk) 08:56, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

The infobox has nowrap for many of the lines. For Elvir Bolić, birth_place has a br tag to split the line, but Mirsad Hibić was all on one line – which forced the infobox to be wide. I changed them both to use two break tags. Maybe the infobox could be changed to use nowrap less often? — GhostInTheMachine talk to me 09:50, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Yes, if infobox has that nowrap then infobox needs to get fixed. Template:Infobox football biography for those football players uses {{Infobox3cols}} even though it should have standard {{infobox}}... -- (talk) 10:59, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Also — Zenica is linked, so perhaps the birth_place could be only the city — GhostInTheMachine talk to me 10:01, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Infobox for Igor Kojić is also wider, similar to Mirsad Hibić case... -- (talk) 10:59, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Updating the links on Special:BookSources[edit]

I've been unable to find where to update the links on Special:BookSources. When I go to I notice that most of the links in New Zealand appear to be broken and I would like to update them. Stuartyeates (talk) 10:05, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

On the page in question just above the TOC, The master copy of this page is located at Wikipedia:Book sources. Izno (talk) 12:27, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

"Search for pages containing XYZ"[edit]

Moved from WP:VPP

If one types e.g. “Afrikan Spir” in WP’s Search window and then click on “Search for pages containing Afrikan Spir”, the following extract appears dozens of times: « Whewell Ludwig Feuerbach Søren Kierkegaard Karl Marx Albrecht Ritschl Afrikan Spir 1880 1900 Ernst Haeckel W K Clifford Friedrich Nietzsche Harald Høffding ». The first occurrence of this extract is to be found under the title Agnosticism, but if you open that page (Agnosticism), you don’t find any mention of Afrikan Spir in the article; you have to go all the way down to the External links section and click on [show] to the right of “Philosophy of religion” to find his name among 100 other names. I find it neither logical nor useful that this extract appears dozens of times when one only wants to see the list of articles that talk about, e. g., Afrikan Spir. Is it technically possible to solve the problem? If it is, is my suggestion worth considering? (Please excuse my English). Regards,--Hamza Alaoui (talk) 10:53, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Expand the Philosophy of religion navbox at the bottom of the page. The 1850 line has "William Whewell · Ludwig Feuerbach · Søren Kierkegaard · Karl Marx · Albrecht Ritschl · Afrikan Spir"GhostInTheMachine talk to me 11:18, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
The search engine has no knowledge of which parts are hidden inside a collapsible element or in a navbox, which is essentially just a template. Excluding collapsed elements or templates in search by default would make it considerably less useful. That said, if you want to search for pages that contain a phrase in the article body only, you can search for e.g. "Afrikan Spir" insource:"Afrikan Spir". Nardog (talk) 11:44, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Thank you very much Nardog, especially for the last sentence; it works well. --Hamza Alaoui (talk) 14:07, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Do include the search term too, like Nardog's example. Searching for insource:"..." alone is very slow and may not finish. It also overloads the servers. Certes (talk) 14:20, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
User:PrimeHunter/Source links.js makes a link below "Tools" to do a similar search for pages which link to Afrikan Spir in their own code and not just via a template. It's a regex search insource:/.../ which is slow and hard on the servers. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:26, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
I think quoted-string (insource:"...") rather than regex (insource:/.../) is kinder to the servers and works just as well for exact strings. We don't actually need regex powers here. DMacks (talk) 14:31, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Quotation does not find most non-letter marks as part of the exact string. (Conversely, insource needs to be made case insensitive with /i.) Izno (talk) 14:37, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
True. It does *skip* (rather than fail to match) some non-letter marks, and it is case-insensitive. Regex by default is more ASCII-literal, including case-sensitivity. insource:"click on Search for pages containing Afrikan Spir" finds this here discussion (notice missing internal quote-mark character) and both insource:"afrikan spir" and insource:"Afrikan Spir" give the same hit-list. DMacks (talk) 14:43, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, the first "Afrikan Spir" was unnecessary. I added it out of habit for regex search, but in this case you don't need it. Nardog (talk) 14:37, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
According to Help:CirrusSearch § Exclude content from the search index, Module:Navbox needs to have navigation-not-searchable class to exclude navbox contents from the search indices. The community has to decide whether this should be done or not, obviously. Module:Main, for example, already has one. stjn[ru] 20:08, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Specifically, Module:Main uses Module:Hatnote which has navigation-not-searchable. Other hatnotes also get it. Based on a search [7] it's only used in hatnotes. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:49, 11 May 2021 (UTC)


... was probably destination of a redirect Template:Lang-he-n (this redirect is now deleted). The redirect was used in article Yamina... -- (talk) 11:10, 11 May 2021 (UTC) [e]

I don't understand. I see you edited close to the Lang-he template there. What is the issue with that? Debresser (talk) 19:28, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Replacing font tags in signatures[edit]

Have there been any bot jobs in the past to clean up obsolete html tag Lint errors? The obsolete <font>...</font> tags used in signatures are the ones that account for majority of this Linter error. I have been using a script to replace font tags in Template namespace. There were thousands of DYK nomination templates having signatures with font tags that were drowning the "real" templates. This task is nearly done, but some other namespaces have literally millions of errors and cannot be done manually. See firefly linter count. Considering WP:COSMETICBOT, are Linter errors that are marked as low priority considered costemic? ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ (talk) 14:21, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

If you read COSMETICBOT, they are not cosmetic.
If you or anyone is going to clean up font tags, you should consider cleaning up obsolete HTML attributes as well; while that is not a current linter error, I have filed at least one task on the point. Izno (talk) 14:38, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
On an aside, I am happy to see that someone has killed off the many DYK pages for that error. Izno (talk) 14:39, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
User:Ahechtbot has been approved to clean up Linter errors in signatures, but not font tags specifically. And yes, Izno, two or three of us have been trying to finish clearing template space of Linter errors. We would have been done long ago if it were not for DYK pages, which should not be in template space. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:49, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Everyone agrees about that. heh. Like 3 people all said that on Discord just now too. Izno (talk) 14:59, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
There's an old RFC somewhere in which someone proposed moving them to Wikipedia space, but it was closed as "too much hassle" or something similar. That left the hassle to gnomes who are trying to clean errors out of Template space and get swamped by these project pages. Let me know if you want to try again, and I'll show up. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:39, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Jonesey95 could you link this RfC? I'm considering actually trying to deal with this. --Trialpears (talk) 17:02, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
I looked earlier today but was unable to find it. I usually put a link to such things on one of my user subpages, since they can be difficult to find. I'll look again. RFC: "nomination process & documentation will move to the Wikipedia: namespace" (April 2018, closed as no consensus). If you do start to draft something, let me know, and we can dig up previous discussions and make a pre-discussion list of the pros and cons. Feel free to post on my talk page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:13, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
About COSMETICBOT, I asked because I was not sure if font tags are considered "egregiously invalid HTML".
Font tags have too many variations between users so a broad replacement using bots seems like a hard thing to do. However replacement of specific users' signatures is easy for bots. Prolific users would have left their signatures in hundreds of pages. We should try to make a list of signatures with font that are used in more than 50 pages and replace them using bots. That will eliminate a lot of errors. ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ (talk) 15:24, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
I did notice that a few font tags had the color Jade but when converted to css, Jade is not a valid color. font span. -- WOSlinker (talk) 22:30, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Yes, Jade doesn't work with span. So I replace it with a similar color lime. Special:MobileDiff/1022593211. ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ (talk) 02:10, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

How to use vertical bar "|" in double braces "{{}}"[edit]

I'm creating a template at User:CX Zoom/TestPage9. I wish to use {{#if:{{{r2|}}}|
! colspan=3 |Round 2}}
, so that putting r2=yes in the template creates additional columns in the the table I'm creating. But unfortunately the "|" before "Round 2" within the braces "{{}}" is wrongly interpreted, leading to malfunctioning of the template. Is there some go-around method to fix this issue? Thanks. Cheers! CX Zoom (talk) 17:27, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

@Pppery: Thanks a lot that worked. CX Zoom (talk) 16:06, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Picture behaving strangely[edit]

On Mung bean, starting with the Mung bean#Mung bean sprout section, the pictures go to the bottom, but still press the text to the right. I have no idea why. Your help will be appreciated. Debresser (talk) 19:21, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Fixed by moving all right-floating content before {{stack end}}.[8] Screen readers may not place it optimally now but fixing the page for seeing users is more important. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:03, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Why did the problem happen at all? Isn't the text supposed to wrap itself to the right of left orientated pictures? Debresser (talk) 21:32, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
The result may be browser dependant. For me in the old revision, text did wrap to the right of pictures to the left, but the text overlapped images to the right, and the top of File:Mung bean sprouts, raw.jpg was aligned below the bottom of File:Mung Seeds.jpg. {{Stack}} works on the latter kind of problem, and also fixed the former problem here. Left- and right-floating pictures opposite eachother can cause poor rendering in narrow windows/screens but that's a different issue. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:18, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
As a screen reader user, I don't mind the new image placement at all. In the wikitext the images appear in the lead section, which isn't a problem; if they appeared in the body in an unrelated section that would be more of an issue. Graham87 09:25, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Infobox Christian denomination[edit]

As no one goes on the talk page, I had to come here and ask for help. Mine is the last question on Template talk:Infobox Christian denominationKolikojerokoko (talk) 21:53, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Issues with Commons?[edit]

About 10 minutes ago I tried to look at Commons, but could not reach anything. Every page consisted only of the string "reset". I cleared my browser's cache (Chrome), no difference. Tried IE (because it was installed), the same. Anyone else seeing this? Or is it something to do with my company's firewall? -- llywrch (talk) 22:47, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

I have disabled your company's firewall and I can see everything just fine. Try again now and see if it's better for you. — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 23:58, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Is there a joke that I'm not getting? Nardog (talk) 10:43, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
I'm not joking. I just tried again this morning & still getting the same result. I meant to try last night from home, but forgot. And to JohnFromPinckney, I wouldn't joke about that: you could get me fired. And to the rest of you, I'd appreciate at least a note that you're not seeing this. -- llywrch (talk) 15:52, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
I was talking about JohnFromPinckney's reply. Is he your boss? And yes, I can access Commons just fine. Nardog (talk) 16:03, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
Don't worry, Llywrch; we had a chat and your boss' only complaint is that you spend too much time on Wikipedia while you're at work. Face-wink.svg.
No, Nardog, I'm nobody's boss. And even more seriously, I was hoping that, since I hadn't seen Llywrch's post until an hour later (and it worked for me), that it was just an intermittent problem that had resolved itself. But perhaps more data points would help find the problem. Nardog, are you using the app? I can't test that because of my archaic infrastructure. — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 18:45, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
Your sentences are increasingly cryptic and puzzling. How do you know what company Llywrch works for and have access to its firewall? "the app" – What app? Nardog (talk) 21:01, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
Nardog and others: My apologies for the cryptic attempt at humor, which even a winkie is inadequate to signal. You are right to be confused; there is no way I could know what company Llywrch works for, I do not know his/her boss nor the real name of Llywrch themself. I have no access to any firewalls, have not had a chat with anyone, and am not even sure who I am anymore. Please forgive the disruption.
And my reference to "the app" was meant to respond to Llywrch's OP, but I see now that Llywrch did not say they were using the Wikipedia app, which means my dementia is accelerating and I imagined the whole thing. The only remotely useful thing I can offer now is that, Commons is (still) fully accessible to me in FF on Vista. Sorry for the insanity. — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 22:34, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
@Llywrch: No problems for me, using Edge on Win10. DuncanHill (talk) 21:05, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
FWIW, understanding the security concerns whenever "disabled... firewall" is mentioned, I saw JohnFromPinckney's message as a clear humorous way of saying "I'm not on your company's firewall (duh) and it works for me". -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 02:28, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
@Llywrch: I ran into the same problem as you (commons pages show "reset") yesterday using Chrome, IE, and Edge. It is working for me today on Edge. RudolfRed (talk) 16:00, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
Tried to access Commons last night from home, had no problems. Tried it again just now, still getting "reset", despite clearing cache repeatedly. Figure it is something to do with this location. If I knew more details about the configuration of this connection, I'd report it as a bug, but all I can do at this time is alert whoever's lurking from the Devels that there is an issue. -- llywrch (talk) 19:48, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Why do I keep getting 504 errors when publishing[edit]

I tried asking this over on the help desk and was redirected here. Every time I try to edit an article I keep getting the error message "Error contacting the Parsoid/RESTBase server (HTTP 504)". This error also occurs when I try to switch to the source editor. I've tried this on multiple wi-fi networks and it still won't work. I'm not even sure if I can publish this here, though I was able to ask on the help desk which uses only the source editor. Can someone help me troubleshoot? I've searched the internet and only found people who are trying to find out why their personal wikis are getting this error and (I think) server-side remedies to the problem so I'm unsure if this is something on my end or on Wikipedia's end. UppercutPawnch (talk) 14:45, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Rowspan not displaying properly[edit]

Kang_Ha-neul#Discography → the last rowspan doesn't seem to display at all but the source seems fine? And this only seems to happen on desktop view for some reason... Alexataylor07 (talk) 17:37, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Alexataylor07, the JavaScript script that makes the table sortable moves the bottom two rows into a tfoot element, likely because they only contain th elements, causing the rowspan to not work. BrandonXLF (talk) 18:08, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
@Alexataylor07: As a go-around measure, I added another column below the rest of the table with an invisible comment, so that the discography data can appear as it should have had appeared. Though I have no idea why is the issue happening just on the desktop site. CX Zoom (talk) 19:27, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
I have hidden the extra row.[9] The mobile version doesn't have sortable tables so it avoids the issue. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:37, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
phab:T114604 appears to be about this. It's been sitting for more than five years. Nardog (talk) 20:44, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
When did MediaWiki start emitting thead and tfoot elements? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 13:41, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
It does in sortable tables. Pretty sure they are added in Javascript though. It has been basically since mw-collapsible added support for tables, I think. Izno (talk) 13:57, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Languages links[edit]

I don't like that the languages links to versions of a given article in other languages have moved from the bottom of the left list to a top right drop down menu. I feel it is less accessible (one click away), harder to find (granted, there's a matter of getting used to the change), and loses valuable info that was available at a glance (how many languages give a direct feeling of notability, purple links tell me I have seen this article in some other languages, and I can see if an article is missing in my mother tongue).

Is there a way for me to get back to the previous style of languages links?

(Or can someone point me to a better place to ask my question? First time I post in the village pump, I'm not sure I'm at the right place..) bonob (talk) 19:11, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

@Bonob: Hi, Welcome to Wikipedia. I will try my best to help you. Can you please tell if the view of the Wikipedia Main Page look like this: (1) or (2)? When you reply, please use {{re|CX Zoom}} in your reply, this will notify me about your reply. CX Zoom (talk) 20:03, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
@CX Zoom: Your first screenshot (that is, I'm using the vector skin). The timeless skin looks very functional actually, but not as elegant. So it seems I could profit from learning about how to mix and match skin bits (which would mostly involve CSS I guess) in order to get both a feel and functionalities I like.. Is my understanding correct?
As an additional question, is there a place I could look at to follow the work that's being done on these skins? bonob (talk) 20:23, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
As Izno mentioned you can go to Special:Preferences and fix this issue. The only way I know to fix this, is to go to Special:Preferences > "Appearance" tab > "Skin preferences" section > Selecting "Use Legacy Vector" option.
I'm not sure how do we mix the various functions with each other to create a personalized skin. I will leave that question to other editors here.
As for the work that is being done on these skins you can visit mw:Reading/Web/Desktop Improvements. Hope that helps. Cheers! CX Zoom (talk) 20:41, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
How to work on personalizing a skin, I know there's plenty of doc around, no problem (beyong taking the time to dive into it). Explaining to me that this was a skin related topic helps very much. Also that Mediawiki page looks like an excellent starting point.
And my appreciation to you CX Zoom and Izno for the prompt feedback and warm welcome ^.^ bonob (talk) 20:55, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
You will not be able to return it to its old place. You have a couple easy options: turn off new Vector and use old Vector instead, or switch to another skin. You can find these in Special:Preferences on the Appearance tab. Someone may at some point make a script which moves it around at a later date also.
This is the correct village pump. Izno (talk) 20:09, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
Thanks @Izno: (good??) for the suggestions and providing context! I know I am at the right place to talk with village pump people, but I'm not sure that's the right Wiki venue for this kind of question? bonob (talk) 20:33, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
Right, I said this was the "right" village pump. ;) Izno (talk) 20:36, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Help desk or Wikipedia:Teahouse would have been better. It's hard for new users to tell whether something is technical enough to belong here so I suggest to start an issue at one of those pages. The helpers may point you here if it requires help from some very technical users who follow this page but might not bother if it becomes too busy with ordinary stuff. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:48, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
That's clear and very helpful for me to find my way around. If I may suggest, a word in the introductory section (the yellow box at the top) giving a quick orientation tip (like, "you have a question that might be technical but you're not so very sure, howler the helpdesk or teahouse people first") would have made a sensible difference in my particular situation.. Thanks PrimeHunter! bonob (talk) 21:10, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Can we define variables in templates?[edit]

I wish to create a new template, in which the value {{sum | {{{r1exhaust}}} | {{{r2exhaust}}} }} is going to be repeated quite a few times. So, it will be extremely easy for me if I could store the value in a variable, say, x= {{sum | {{{r1exhaust}}} | {{{r2exhaust}}} }}. Is it possible to do so? Thanks. Cheers! CX Zoom (talk) 20:23, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

No, it is not possible but you can use Lua. Ruslik_Zero 20:47, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
Repeated constant expressions are often handled by letting the main template call a subtemplate with the expression as a parameter. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:56, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
Yes, if one wants to avoid Lua, this is the generally supported way of doing things.
That said, I would learn Lua instead. Izno (talk) 21:42, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
Exactly Izno, I tried learning Lua before, and it felt so complicated that I simply couldn't learn it. I'm afraid I'm missing out some interesting coding stuff though. CX Zoom (talk) 22:07, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
@CX Zoom: I had this same concern and let me tell you - learning Lua will save you so much time compared to messing with templates if you are intending on doing anything seriously complicated. Elli (talk | contribs) 22:42, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
Yes, you can. Sort of. You can define sections for transclusion enclosed by <section begin=x> and <section end=x>, and then call on them with {{lst|x}}. It may not work, depending on the order things are processed on the page, but, depending on the case, it may. And it will certainly not save any computing power, as the MW engine makes all transclusion substitutions before processing any expressions. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 21:12, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
While that markup is useful in some contexts, I don't think it works for template variables due to various software limitations. * Pppery * it has begun... 21:14, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
Right! Was thinking of pages, not templates (note to self: don't jump into forums first thing in the morning). Still, Izno's is the best answer: the variables are the parameters you receive from the template call. If one needs to define a variable 'in' the template, one need only call a subtemplate with that as a parameter. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 01:29, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
They aren't variables, though. See my comment of 23:01, 26 July 2020 (UTC) at Template talk:Talk header/Archive 10#"archives=yes" suppresses list of archive files? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 13:49, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Pressing 'enter' to publish an edit[edit]

This is probably incredibly minor, but I used to be able to press the 'enter' key when I was filling out an edit summary to publish the edit without having to use my mouse to click the button. Has there been some change on the technical end that stripped out that feature? Sdrqaz (talk) 22:26, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

@Sdrqaz:, Special:Diff/1019211039. :-) Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 22:32, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
Ah. Well, that's embarrassing. I thought that it only prevented me from publishing an edit with a blank summary. Thanks! Sdrqaz (talk) 22:39, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Fill in a Huggle-using curmudgeon on new counter-vandalism tools?[edit]

I've been doing RCP/counter-vandalism work for a few years off and on, mostly using Huggle. As I've come back recently, I've seen some new tools, notably RedWarn and SWViewer, showing up in page histories. It's not immediately easy to tell from their documentation how much they do or what new features they bring to the table, so I'm asking here: are people moving away from Huggle? Do these new tools do things that Huggle doesn't? I'd love to hear from former Huggle users happily using new tools, if any.

To be clear, I have absolutely nothing against new tools being developed, nor people using different tools than I do; quite the opposite. I'm just trying to figure out if anything "new on the market" is worth the trouble to switch. Gaelan 💬✏️ 23:34, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

This is a strange complaint to make about a counter-vandalism tool, but I don't use Huggle because of how quick it is. Its interface isn't terribly user-friendly and I had trouble clearly seeing what edit the supposed vandal had made in the diff view. My quarrel with it is that it doesn't seem to stop you accidentally rollbacking an edit that's already been rollbacked, while Twinkle and RedWarn stop you in your tracks and abort the process. Huggle's advantages is that it flags a vandal's future edits for other users if they get reverted, but that can be accomplished with a bit of filtering in recent changes. RedWarn has a user-friendly interface and keeps Huggle's pre-loaded edit summaries and allows you to use rollback too, giving it a slight edge over Twinkle. Just my thoughts. Sdrqaz (talk) 23:50, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

My quarrel with it is that it doesn't seem to stop you accidentally rollbacking an edit that's already been rollbacked

I'm getting a bit off topic here, but I believe Huggle simply does nothing in these cases; it just notices and moves on to the next edit without reverting. (It'll show a message in the logs at the bottom telling you as much.) Is there something else you'd want to do in a situation like that? Gaelan 💬✏️ 02:39, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
Interesting, Gaelan. Anecdotally, I've seen a lot more accidental rollbacks with Huggle than with RedWarn and Twinkle, such as this example, where they reverted ClueBot NG; I subsequently reverted it. Sdrqaz (talk) 15:00, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
Figuring out if Huggle is less used is largely a matter of numbers. Edits in current recent changes by tool:
First msg to users by tool
Total First msg to user
Huggle 21,333 12,287
Twinkle 166,162 23,687
RedWarn 13,150 3,000
Fetched with quarry, sorting tools by their tags. Compare the "first msg to user" numbers to the image to the right from 2011, keeping in mind the time period in the image is not the same.--Snævar (talk) 13:47, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
I personally have stuck with Twinkle for my activities. Like Sdrqaz, I find Huggle a bit too quick, for basically the same reasons. I also have tried Redwarn (Didn't like the interface at all, felt too slow compared to Twinkle with poor loading times), and Wikiloop (same issue).
I have not tried SWViewer, and in fact am going to try it right now, as workflow improvements are always welcome. —moonythedwarf 15:28, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
SWViewer seems OK. It doesn't cover all my needs, but it seems good for filtering through things, and it's easy to click out of it to the main site. —moonythedwarf 18:17, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Need help again! Regarding creation of templates[edit]

Template Election box roundwise rank choice begin creation note.png

I wanted to create a new Template at Template:Election box roundwise rank choice begin. But on clicking "Publish page", I am shown a note saying Preview page with this {{pagetype|defaultns=all}} ([[mw:Extension:Template:Sandbox|what's this?]]) below the Summary box (see the picture). Can you please tell what to write here? Thanks. Cheers! CX Zoom (talk) 13:45, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

  • Later Note: I also wish to mention that I tried to view mw:Extension:Template:Sandbox but it has no text at all.CX Zoom (talk) 14:06, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
    That's because you typed Template:Sandbox, with a colon, instead of TemplateSandbox. It shouldn't appear as plain wikitext but parsed (as in "Preview page with this template (what's this?)"), so you found a bug that should be fixed. Nardog (talk) 14:30, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
    Reported on Phab just a few days ago: T282287. Nardog (talk) 14:37, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
    Oh yeah. My bad. Thanks. CX Zoom (talk) 14:46, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
    It really isn't. It should have appeared as a link in the first place. Nardog (talk) 14:48, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
If you edit an existing template, you can enter the name of a page that uses that template to see how it will be affected by your template change before you save it. It's possible to have a page (let's call it Foo) that "uses" a template that doesn't yet exist; so when creating that template, you can enter Foo into that entry box, and preview how the page Foo will appear once the template has been created. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 13:58, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
You can also use User:Jackmcbarn/advancedtemplatesandbox.js to preview pages as if you were editing a different template than you are actually editing. * Pppery * it has begun... 14:23, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
Nothing. It's not telling you to preview, just that you can preview it if you you want to. Nardog (talk) 14:27, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Categories#Prioritizing search results[edit]

I've started a discussion about adding a couple categories used on template pages to MediaWiki:Cirrussearch-boost-templates at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Categories#Prioritizing search results. Please leave a comment over there if you have thoughts on the proposal. --Trialpears (talk) 20:55, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Two man rule[edit]

Nothing's going to break if we move Template:Twomanrule to a gender-neutral name, right? WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:04, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Sure, as long as you fix the double redirects quickly enough, but even then there is currently only one redirect which is used by only one page, so you may also let the bots do it and expect little disruption. Nardog (talk) 00:08, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
Nothing will break. When I last checked templates could even handle double redirects (couldn't find the phab ticket responsible for it though). I would start an RM though. I have no idea what to move this to since I don't understand the purpose of it. --Trialpears (talk) 01:01, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
On a side note, can anyone explain the history of this template and why it displays "Review"? I presume there's some process that it's used for? isaacl (talk) 00:13, 14 May 2021 (UTC)